MINUTES OF THE 11th MEETING OF ADVISORY COMMITTEE HELD AT 11.30 A.M. ON 26.02.2015 IN THE CHAMBERS OF CHIEF SECRETARY TO GOVT OF ANDHRA PRADESH AT HYDERABAD.

The 11th meeting of the Advisory Committee for State Government Employees was held on the 26th February, 2015 at Hyderabad.

The following members attended the meeting:

1. Sri C.R. Kamalanathan, IAS (Retd)
2. Sri I Y R Krishna Rao IAS
3. Dr. Rajiv Sharma, IAS
4. Sri V. Nagi Reddy, IAS
5. Smt. Kimbuong Kipgen
6. Sri L. Premachandra Reddy, IAS
   • Chairperson: Chief Secretary, Government of Andhra Pradesh
   • Chief Secretary, Government of Telangana State
   • Prl. Secretary, Finance, Government of Telangana State
   • Director, D o P T
   • Secretary, General Administration (SR)
   • Department, GOAP – Member Secretary

Dr P.V. Ramesh, IAS, Principal Secretary, Finance Dept., A.P., was granted leave of absence.

The following permanent invitees were also present at the Meeting:

Sri Raymond Peter, IAS, Prl Secretary, PR & RD Department, Govt of Telangana State
Sri K. Ramakrishna Rao, IAS, Spl Secretary Finance and Secretary, GA (SR) Dept, Govt of Telangana State

1. Sri. Anurag Sharma, IPS,
2. Smt. A.R. Anuradha, IPS,
3. Sri. Tushar Aditya Tripathy, IPS
4. Sri. Sudeep Lakhtakia, IPS,
5. Sri. M. Gopikrishns, IPS,
6. Smt. Anuradha, IPS
7. Sri. Vijaykaran Reddy,
8. Sri. Hemanth Panipadu,

were present by special invitation:

DGP., Government of Telangana State
Addl DGP, (Int), GOAP
Addl DGP, (Orgn&Per), GOAP.
Addl DGP, (L&O), GOTS.
Addl DGP, (Organisations), GOTS
I.G. of Police, A.P
Director, CGG, Hyderabad
Project Director, CGG, Hyderabad

At the outset the Advisory Committee took note of the fact: Smt. Archana Varma, Joint Secretary, D o PT Member on the Committee as Centre’s representative has conveyed that Smt. Kimbuong Kipgen, Director, D o P T will be her nominee on the Committee here after. The Committee welcomed Smt. Kipgen to the meeting.

AGENDA ITEMS

1. Recording of the Minutes of the 10th Meeting of the Advisory Committee held on the 28th November, 2014 at New Delhi.

Recorded

1. Item for information
   a. Appointment of Sri Premachandra Reddy, IAS., as Secretary to Government (Co-op & Marketing), Agriculture & Co-operation. Department duly placing full additional charge of the post of Secretary to Govt (SR), General Administration (S R) Department was noted.b. Action taken on the decision of the 9th Meeting of the Advisory Committee

Secretary GAD (SR) Telangana State informed the Committee that action in pursuance of suggestion of the Committee at its 9th meeting has been taken and that a file on the subject has been sent to the GA (SR) Dept. A P.

1. Action taken on the decisions of the 10th Meeting of the Advisory Committee. Noted

2. Confirmation of the following proposals (note on Allocation priorities, Ratio of allocation etc) approved in circulation and submission of proposal for approval by the GO I in terms of paragraph 18 (y):

The Committee noted and recorded the decisions of the Committee taken in circulation on the sequential steps in the process of allocation consequent on the amendment of the Guidelines on the first January, 2015, ratio for allocation of employees/determination of the number of employees to be allocated, order of priority in the allocation of different categories of personnel, and allocation criteria for allotment of person holding single post.

The Government of India representative and the members considered that these being in the nature of elaboration of the Guidelines there is no need to seek approval of the GO I and that tentative allocation lists may be prepared in accordance with the Guidelines as supplemented by these decisions.

1. Approval of computer format of Option form and submission of the same to GO I for approval in terms of paragraph 18 (y).

Committee noted the adaption of the option form as given in the Form attached to the note to the Committee and approved and ratified the use of the same. The Government of India representative and the members considered that these being in the nature of adaption of the Option form given in the annexure to the Guidelines in a computerized format there is no need to seek approval of the Government of India.

1. Pending cases of provisional Notifications of Cadre Strength

Committee noted that there are 89 departments for the purpose of allocation of posts and State cadre personnel as on the 1st June, 2014 by the Committee and that the Police department with the DG of Police as its head is treated as a single department with 8 sub heads of departments and 17 A P S P Battalions under him. The A P Secretariat is treated as 3 main departments viz., Finance, law and the rest of the secretariat departments in all comprising 32 sub units. Also noted that the notifications of cadre strength of 75 departments are issued calling for comments and suggestions of the employees, services associations and others interested and such notifications for the remaining departments are pending for want of agreement on the cadre strength and its division between the two State H O Ds.

After detailed discussions on the factors contributing to delay in the provisional cadre strength of the departments mentioned in the note, the Committee decided that both the Secretary to Govt (SR), GAD, A P and Spl Secretary to Govt (SR), GAD, Telangana State may discuss the issues relating to the contentious categories of posts with the HODs in charge of both the States of the departments concerned, arrive at the provisional cadre strength ofcategories allocable between the two States and to propose n provisional notification of the same accordingly.

In this context the Committee noted that in so far as the Department of PAO are concerned there is a case for making a distinction between the HQ function and local function discharged by the departments and to keep in mind the composition of the personnel constituting the state cadre posts. Suitable basis could be arrived at for distinguishing such functions and to do provisional allocation of posts accordingly.

It was noted that the notification of cadre strength of Secretariat departments is pending only due to the time being taken to furnish data on employees and that the concerned departments may be asked to expedite submission of personnel data.

Director General & Inspector General of Police with sub HoDs under DGP and APSP, SAR PCL, Grey Hounds and Octopus

Detailed discussions took place on the division of state cadre posts and personnel of the Police department. The discussions and decisions are summarised below.

Director General & IG of Police

The above table gives the police establishments in the Government of AP categorised as Heads of Departments, Special offices, state level offices and those the posts in which come within exempted categories. The institutions specifically included in the Act and the schedule to the Act are also depicted. The DG & I G of Police is the H o D of the entire Police force with sub H o Ds under him. The office of the DG is the overall cadre controlling authority for the regular hierarchy of the higher categories of Police posts. The SubordinateHeads of Departments are the cadre controlling and appointing authorities for certain posts confined to their offices.

Hence provisional notification of cadre strength and allocation of personnel will be done separately for the categories under DG of Police; and the sub H o Ds for the posts under them to the extent there are posts exclusively in charge of the sub H o Ds for which they maintain separate seniority lists. The A P Police Academy and the FSL will be outside the committee purview.

The posts other than ministerial categories in Special Police battalions and the SAP CPL are exempted categories under the Presidential Order and hence will be treated as State wide posts and will be distributed between the two states.

Similarly the Octopus and Grey Hound Forces will also be treated as state cadre and personnel allocated in terms of Section 9(5) and Paragraph 6 (vii) read with Paragraph 18(c). It was noted that these forces predominantly comprise personnel drawn from the AP SP battalions which are treated as state level and also from the local cadres of district police. The local cadre personnel drawn from the local cadres will revert to their respective local cadres. Allocation of AP SP and CPL personnel in the Forces will be done as part of the battalions. It was noted that the personnel serving the Forces are deputation personnel working on tenure.

The post of Inspectors of police is specified gazetted category. Thus in the civil police state cadres will comprise categories of posts above the Inspectors of police excluding posts borne on the IPS Cadre. The division of cadre strength between the two States will be done on the basis of paragraph 8 and paragraph 9 (i) & (ii). Territorial posts will go to the State concerned. Posts not exclusively relatable to territories in the office of the DGP and Sub heads of departments will be divided in the ratio of population.

The total cadre strength in the state as a whole of each category of posts in all the battalions and the SAR CPL will be determined and divided on population ratio. Excess personnel of each category over the posts allocated to a State will be moved based on seniority, local candidature and option to the extent needed.

It was agreed that proposal for division of cadre strength will be furnished jointly by the DGs of Police in the light of the above.# 7. Formal approval of the Notifications of provisional cadre strength of Departments.: Decision:

The notification of provisional cadre strength of the following departments done between the $28^{\text {th }}$ November, 2014 and $23^{\text {rd }}$ February, 2015 were noted, approved. The Form II and Form IV as provisionally notified are appended.

1. Note on the status of allocation of posts and personnel:

Noted.

1. Note on the issues raised in the representations forwarded by GoI:

Cases of Spouse in Central Employment and those Spouses Working in Local CadresThe Committee noted that D o P T has forwarded two representations in their mail dated 9th January, 2015 suggesting that the attached representations may be examined and placed before the Advisory Committee for appropriate amendment / clarifications in the guidelines for final allocation, if required.

I. Sri Devendar, a Scientific officer of the Nuclear Fuel Complex, Hyderabad and a native of Telangana, whose spouse is a State Cadre employee and a native of A P working in A P Government, has represented to the Central Government that there must be a provision in the Guidelines for allocation of a State cadre employee whose spouse is employed in the Central Government or in a Central Government undertaking or institution to the State where that spouse is employed.

II. Sri S Ravikant, an Assistant Executive Engineer of Irrigation Department, a local candidate of Zone I allotted to Zone VI local cadre by the APPSC and working in Zone VI in Telangana, whose spouse is a local cadre employee of Zone I, has represented that there is no provision in the Guidelines dealing with cases of spouses like him both of whom are working in local cadres and that he or his wife may be transferred to either AP or Telangana so as to be enable them to work and live together in the same State.

The Committee noted that the guidelines do not cover the cases referred to in the two representations.

The Chief Secretaries of Telangana and Andhra Pradesh agreed in principle that spouses in public service in Central, State or Local cadre /local body employment should be in the same State as far as possible and that the Government of India may be moved to make provision in the Guidelines to accommodate employees whose spouses are in Central government/Central Government institution employment. It was also resolved that tentative allocations may go on without being held up pending modification of the Guidelines and that it will be up to the Governments to consider such cases if any in departments the tentative allocations of which have already been notified.

In so far as spouses who are in local cadres in different States is concerned it was noted that the committee has no jurisdiction and will not come into the picture. The Government of Telangana and the Government of A P will have to evolve a policy in this regard.

The above recommendations will be conveyed to the Central Government. The Government of India will also be moved to modify the Allocation Guidelines with prospective effect without adversely affecting allocations already made pending amendments.

In this context Committee also noted that pending the resolution of issues/disputes relating to scheduled institutions, and societies and other institutions of State Governments it wasdecided to exclude the cases of employees whose spouses are working in state government institutions as the division of employees of these institutions is yet to be decided and it is not known to which State the spouse working in such an institution is to be allocated. This may result in several representations from the employees likely to be affected pending resolution of the issues. There may be institutions which may not be divided also. It will be extremely difficult for the Committee to go into these on a case by case basis. The state Governments will have to take appropriate action to accommodate such spouses together along with the managements of the State institutions.

1. Approval of lists of State level entities under the Presidential order categorized as Territorial and State level entities:

The lists of entities proposed as territorial serving AP or Telangana as the case may be and as State level entities for the purpose of allocation of posts and the list of entities which are non-existence and the list of entities which are in the 10th Schedule of the A.P.Reorganisation Act, 2014 as appended at Annexure V, VI, VII & VIII of the Agenda notes were taken note of by the Committee.

However it was noted that there has been second thought on the following three institutions treated as territorial in the M&H department on the part of the A P Government:

i. College of Nursing, Hyderabad,
ii. Dental wing of Osmania Medical College, Hyderabad, and
iii. Radium Institute of Cancer Hospital, Hyd (MNJIO&RCC), Hyd

Provisional notification of apportionment of cadre Strength of the allocable posts in the Medical Education Department between the successor States of A.P and Telangana State had been published on 08.01.2015 treating MNJIO&RCC, Govt Dental College, and Govt College of Nursing as territorial to Telangana State.

The H.M F.W Dept of Govt of A.P., have requested that the decision of keeping the three above mentioned institutions territorial has to be reviewed and these institutions have to be treated as State Level entities for the purpose of apportionment of posts between the successor States for following reasons:

i. The MNJIO&RCC, Hyderabad is the only regional cancer center in the combined state and there is no RCC in the state of AP to serve the cancer patients in the state of AP. Therefore, the services of MNJIO&RCC, Hyderabad will be continued to both states till the establishment of a new RCC in the state of AP to the cancer patients.ii. The Govt., Dental College Hospital, Hyderabad is only the PG centre in the dental surgery courses in the combined state. In the state of AP no PG courses in Dental surgery are established. For establishment of the PG courses in the state of AP teaching faculty is required. Therefore, the faculty and the staff of Govt., Dental College Hospital, and Hyderabad have to be apportioned between the successor states.

iii. The Govt., College of Nursing, Hyderabad has been conducting the M.Sc nursing courses. It is the only institute in the govt., in the combined state. In the state of AP no M.Sc nursing courses are there in government sector. For establishment of the M.Sc nursing courses in the state of AP teaching faculty is required. Therefore, the faculty and the staff of Govt., College of Nursing, Hyderabad is to be apportioned between the successor states.

In this context it has come to notice that the MNJ Institute is a society and hence the posts in it will be outside the cadre strength. The issue relating to the two remaining institutions is under examination by H.M F.W Dept in consultation with the H.M&FW Dept of Telangana State. The Committee decided to wait for the outcome.

The Nizamia Tibbi College and Hospital, Hyderabad under the department is notified as one of the State level offices and institutions under Presidential order. The Commissioner, AYUSH, Telangana State proposed this institution as territorial to Telangana. However the Commissioner, AYUSH, A.P declined to sign the proposal of Commissioner, AYUSH, Telangana. He has also not submitted his stand on the issue. As in the case of the above institutions there is no agreement on this also. The committee decided to wait for the Governments of AP and Telangana to resolve the issue and await a possible joint decision at the earliest.

The committee further decided to treat the ACB as a head of the department the allocation of which may be done following the guidelines. It was also decided to treat the Government College of Physical Education, Hyderabad and Office of the Inspectress of Schools, Hyderabad in the Education department as State level institutions in the circumstances stated.

Committee suggested that Governments of A P and TS may jointly issue the lists of territorial entities relatable to the respective States and entities that will continue to be State entities. In this context the Chief Secretaries agreed that there should be a unified institutional mechanism to carry on the affairs of each of these State level institutions and to facilitate continued services to both the States by each of them as before the bifurcation on 2-6-2014 till corresponding institutions are established in the other State. This impliesthat the officers serving these institutions being allocated may continue to serve them pending parallel institutions coming up in the other State.

1. Consideration of comments and suggestions received on provisional cadre strength of the following departments notified and revision thereof.

Committee noted the comments and suggestions received upon notification of cadre strength in respect of the following departments placed before it, the recommendations on the same, and the proposed revision of cadre strength as a consequence as reflected in the attached revised statements in Form II and Form IV A

1. Cadre strength of Accounts Branches of the Offices of Heads of Departments

Committee decided that the Secretary to (SR), GAD, A.P and SpI Secretary to Govt (SR), GAD, and A.P may discuss and resolve the issues in the light of note circulated by the Chairman.

1. First gazetted categories of Assistant Treasury Officers

Committee noted the violation of the provisions of the Presidential order and decided however that there is no way out except to, without prejudice to any court case pending on the subject, divide the posts between the two States in Form II and allocate the personnel between the two States.

1. First gazetted categories of Labour OfficersCommittee noted the violation of the provisions of the presidential Order and decided however that there is no way out except to, without prejudice to the case in the High Court at Hyderabad on the subject, divide the posts of Assistant Commissioners of Labour treating it as State wide and dividing the posts between the two States in Form II and allocate the personnel between the two States treating the category as state cadre as directed by the A P A T.

2. Procedure for tentative allocation of Last Grade employees and local employees proposed to be allotted against their option in terms of Paragraph 18(g)&(j):

The C.S to Govt, Telangana State indicated that now the Government has decided that for the last grade employees and light vehicle drivers category also the allocation shall be to the extent of posts allocated only as per guidelines applicable to other posts. The Committee noted the decision of the Govt, Telangana State as conveyed by the CS and decided to proceed accordingly. Now as in the cases covered by paragraph 18(g) the respective governments will be informed of those being forced to move to the other State against their wish for action as appropriate.

1. Local cadre personnel in State entities

Under the provisions to Sub-section (2) of Section 77 on or after the appointed day, local, district, zonal and multi-zonal cadres employees shall continue to serve, in that cadre; and the employees of local, district, zonal and multi-zonal cadres which fall entirely in one of the successor States, shall be deemed to be allotted to that successor State.

Committee has suggested vide item 10 of the agenda that Governments of Andhra Pradesh and Telangana State may jointly issue the lists of territorial entities relatable to the respective States and entities that will continue to be State entities. This is considered necessary to complete the process of allocation of personnel and redeployment of the local cadre employees working in these. Once this is done it is obvious that those local cadre employees in the entities that will be treated as territorial to the other State to which they do not belong will have to revert to the State to which they belong. Where they are serving in the institutions that belong to their State there is no problem in their continuing to serve in these institutions. The local cadre employees of Telangana working in the offices of HoDs in that State in pursuance of the provisional orders to serve can continue to serve there. But those Telangana local cadre employees whocontinue to serve the State of AP or vice versa will have to revert to their respective
Sates. Those local cadre personnel serving in institutions that will continue to be
treated as state level institutions under unified management may have to continue
till alternate institutions come up in the other state. The committee noted that there
could be instances such of local cadre employees retiring in Telangana though they
belong to A P local cadres with entitlement to serve till they attain 60 years.

The Government of Andhra Pradesh has issued some instructions in relation to personnel of
local cadres in their memo of September 26th 2014. It appears in pursuance of this the
Irrigation departments of the two governments had issued orders to the local cadre
employees of the other State to move and some employees are still to receive postings in
the other State.

The Committee recommended that the State governments may revisit the issue and
consider further action to be taken in pursuance of Section 77 of the Act in relation to
employees of local cadres.

Granted Leave of absence
(DR.P.V.Ramesh)

(L. Premachandra Reddy)

(V. Nagi Reddy)

(Kimbuong Reaen)

(Dr. Rajiv Sharma)

(LY.R. Krishna Rao)

(C.R. Kamalanathan)